Moon-net November 2011

moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com

160 participants
271 discussions

by SV3AAF Petros

Hello moonbouncers, There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on all bands except 2m from US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it. I also “worked” JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out anyway??) and apart from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot of Jamming, even from its own creator!!? Check a small part of it from N0UK logger: 11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193) 11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45) 11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't gonna happen!! (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193) 11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45) 11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt 24.241.251.86) 11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122) 11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122) One thing I wouldn’t regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!! GL 73, Petros SV3AAF

9 years, 5 months

Henry 3002A Amplifier 144 MHz for sale

by Lars-G. Jarelund

I have this QRO-amplifier for sale but because of the weight and size, only local pickup is possible. Think ít´s only interesting for amateurs located in Sweden. It is advertised on: http://www.dx-radio.se/?an=3402 Lars SM5DCX

10 years, 5 months

FUNCUBE DANGLE SDR RECEIVER

by serge

Hi! folks Is there anyone using this SDR receiver for EME ? I looked at their homepage & only saw folks using it for satellite work. I believe the Fun dongle PRO covers from 60 MHZ to 1700MHZ & works with MAP65IQ. Can someone who is using it give me some details on performance & set up please. SergeVE1KG

11 years, 5 months

Web Page with comprehensive 432 + EME Operator/Station info?

by Patrick Barthelow

Friends: A long time ago, I used someone's wonderful site that had a comprehensive listing of most 432 and above EME stations, that, if you clicked on a listed callsign, you got usually a photo of the Station Op, station details, and photos of antenna array/Dish. the images came centered on the same listing page. I cant get to that site this afternoon, so far... Anyone have a URL? -- Best, 73, Pat Barthelow, AA6EG apolloeme(a)gmail.com

11 years, 6 months

13el LFA LN yagi

by Loren Moline WA7SKT

Hello, Just made a little progress today...reflector and 2 directors mounted. Ran test just for the h__ of it. With it sitting on saw horses in garage SWR was like 1.2 to 1 but at 138.5MHz or so. I know it will change after I mount more elements and of course it can't be tested properly where it is. I don't know if its just the DE length that is making it low in freq but at least I know I can get a low SWR at some frequency. Will cut and add more elements tomorrow. This is just the rear half of the yagi which is 12 1/2 ft. It is 1" square tubing with 1/16" wall so will need and overhead brace of course and I must figure out what I will use to splice the 2 12 1/2 ft booms...because the last director on the end will take more than a 25ft boom I will add an extension for that front director. Out of all of radio I think I like building antennas the most of all. Loren WA7SKT Member: ARRL and Pacific Northwest VHF Society Member: Hearsat Satellite Monitoring Group ( www.hearsat.org ) Location: CN86bx

11 years, 6 months

Map-65, Linrad , Delta 44, IQ+ and a new computer

by Les

Hi all, In the process of setting up for the new IQ+ to work with Linrad and Map-65. Realized that in my one year old Quad Core Computer ( and just checked the specs of what is on the market now), they have pretty much done away the old PCI standard required by the Delta 44 audio card. I do have an older P4 ( Windows XP) that has a PCI port and I guess I can run Linrad on one machine and Map-65 on the other ( once I figure out how to get them to talk) , but has anyone found an alternative audio card that is compatible with the new PCIe standard or used a usb based audio card with these application? I also see that that there are PCIx to PCI converters, anybody have any luck with those? As a side note, as a user of Map-65IQ with a down converter and SDR-IQ, if the FunCube is even closely equivalent , for that price, I would run as fast as I can and buy one. Using Map-65IQ has opened up a complete new dimension to my enjoyment of EME. With just a T connector and a coaxial relay in the shack , I have a simple system where I monitor the band with Map-65IQ and then switch to my-TS-2000 and WJST to work a station. Also check out High Sierra Microwave, who offers a 2M 2 pole filter and preamp specifically for the Funcube. 73s Les W2LPL (W2DBL)

11 years, 6 months

Re: [Moon-net] ARRL EME Contest Dates for 2012 and 2013

by jimmyv＠hol.gr

Hi Wolfgang First of all you do not owe an apology to anyone. Regarding your mail below and K1JT answer to you with respect to serious collision problems on Nov 3-4 on 144MHz - as you and DF2ZC well point out - , due to Marconi cw Memorial Contest (the biggest most popular EU terrestrial contest), here is the history so as to set the record straight: In August 2011 K1JT e-mailed a certain group of US plus EU stations (the latter below) who he had chosen, on possible ARRL 2012 EME Contest dates. Being invited to submit my opinion, i was happy to provide a constructive input as best as i could. After discussions between all, i personally did NOT agree with the dates which were finally put forward by K1JT to ARRL for 2012 (i now still wonder why those were finally chosen as we had a ''tie'' as you will see below...but no hard feelings anyway as this is obviously ARRL decision). In the e-mails exchange between us all, i argumented exactly why i had proposed different weekends. Summary: One proposal favored by K1JT, IK1UWL, G3LTF, for 2012 called the ''late option'': October 6-7 +21 2.1 2.3G and Up November 3-4 +20 5.1 50-1296 December 1-2 +18 4.5 50-1296 The other proposal was by myself called the ''SV1BTR option'' (i supported the best compromise on loss vs declination, plus no problem with 144MHz Marconi Memorial or IARU Region 1 UHF Contests): September 29-30 +6 1.8 2.3G and Up October 27-28 +9 3.5 50-1296 December 1-2 +18 4.5 50-1296 As ARI EME Contest was September 29-30 , when told by Giorgio, i was open for the Oct 6-7 weekend for 2.3G and up as i e-mailed IK1UWL. So the ''latter'' proposal with microwave weekend being in those 2 whereabouts and the rest as above, was favored by OK1DFC, W5LUA, myself. No specific dates' choice was submitted by DL7APV, SM2CEW, K2UYH, W3SZ in the mails i was Cc. F5SE also did not propose any contest weekend which coincided with the big terrestrial cw vhf contest and he also liked the Oct 26-27 weekend for 50-1296MHz last leg (with the other 2 weekends being in September). I close the subject here, chose to reply to this issue so that readers know the story as it really happened. Not interested to prolong this to any form of debate. Thank you & 73 Jimmy SV1BTR Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:11:24 +0000 From: dl5mae(a)yahoo.de To: moon(a)moonbounce.info CC: kozton(a)easynet.fr Subject: Re: [Moon] ARRL EME Contest Dates for 2012 and 2013 Hi All, yesterday I sent an Email to moon-reflector with my opinion that the 1st weekend in November for ARRL EME contest (2m) is the worst because the BIGGEST MOST POPULAR CONTEST (MARCONI MEMORIAL) TAKES PLACE in Europe. Today I got the below Email by K1JT. He likes to have an apology for some people. 1. In the mail of K1JT I see EUROPE consists of seven (7) people those were asked. Why not on public on the reflector? Also, its a big difference about the activity in central EU and i.e. northern Norway. 2. DL5MAE sent logs for ARRL EME Contest (maybe not regularly , some of them were JUST LOST /or DENIED ?) . ALso this year once more my log is on the way. Since the robot does only take CABRILLO I sent it by snail-mail (handwritten) 3. I wrote the mail yesterday to inform the organizer that 2m EME Contest and MArconi Contest is a real problem for Central EU because of the terrestrial QRM situation! If this would not be understood then I will finish this discussion now and will watch the reflector with all the complaints of QRM in 2012. vy 73 de DL5MAE Wolfgang Von: Joe Taylor <joe(a)Princeton.EDU> An: dl5mae(a)yahoo.de Gesendet: 22:16 Dienstag, 29.November 2011 Betreff: Re: [Moon] ARRL EME Contest Dates for 2012 and 2013 Hi Wolfgang, I suppose I should not be surprised to see your complaint about the posted dates for the ARRL EME Contest in 2012, since the information came in an email from me. > A quiet 2m EME contest to be expected in 2012 in November as > Europe wasnt asked. You are 100% wrong to suppose that "Europe wasn't asked". I happen to know that the following operators were all asked for their opinions: SV1BTR G3LTF SM2CEW DL7APV OK1DFC IK1UWL F5SE ... along with a number of NA operators who are regular contest participants. Perhaps the ARRL should have asked DL5MAE before proceeding with the advice they did receive? On the other hand, as far as I can recall DL5MAE hasn't entered this contest for some years... You owe an apology to all those who responded with their best advice on this scheduling question. -- 73, Joe, K1JT _______________________________________________ Moon mailing list Moon(a)moonbounce.info http://www.moonbounce.info/mailman/listinfo/moon Please enter/update your standings: http://www.vhf-dx.net/top.html When you decide to remain anonymous I may consider this unpolite and remove you from the list

11 years, 6 months

Re: [Moon-net] JT65 operating hints

by Dennis Schaefer

The info on JT65 operating has been helpful for me. EME is not my main ham activity, but it is interesting, and I am looking forward to make my first CW QSO with a big station. I am hearing SV1BTR, SP7DCS, K5GW, RU1AA, etc quite well at times. I was ready for the ARRL test but yet another family illness called me away and I only got to spend about an hour. I do some JT65 but have no interest in SDR capability at this time and when using the loggers, attention is divided between the computer and the radio. It is difficult to just tune the band because of the nature of JT65. When I started, I read Joe's explanation of the designated frequencies for random JT65 operation. The explanation of how a bunch of stations can fit into a small space has been very enlightening. I am strongly in favor of this. I can operate portable EME from a rural location with no internet, and this would make it much more attractive. Birdies would be a problem for some, but 8 Khz should allow everyone to have some usable space. People could spread out if made necessary by high activity or for skeds. The suggested calling frequencies for JT65 and separating the contests into CW and digital weekends are things I would support. I've seen the controversy over dates selected conflicting with other contests, but for strictly EME considerations, CW should have its own weekend. With amazing, unselfish help from my friend Jimmy, SV1BTR, I learned a lot about CW operation and equipment. My antenna site (for 4 antennas away from the house) turned out to be unusable because of too many tall pine trees, limiting my moon time to elevations above 40 degrees even after cutting a bunch of trees. I am using 350 watts to a single KLM 16LBX near the house, so JT65 is not too bad and CW is possible. Looking forward to some truly random JT65 operation! 73, Dennis, W5RZ

11 years, 6 months

Fwd: Re: JT65 Operating Hints

by Edward R. Cole

I intended this to go to MoonNet (forwarded) - Ed >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:14:56 -0900 >To: Cliff Sojourner <cls(a)employees.org> >From: "Edward R. Cole" <kl7uw(a)acsalaska.net> >Subject: Re: [Moon-net] JT65 Operating Hints > >Cliff, > >Of course, so that is why I suggested at least two sub-band segments >so there would be an alternative. And this is not one calling >frequency but a small band of freqs. But your point is >noted. Selection of these "watering holes" will take some >discussion and thought. How about some one start? > >A=144.112-144.118 MHz >B=144.145-144.151 MHz > >144.140 MHz should be avoided since it is established for meteor >scatter calling. > >This would permit three 2-KHz windows or six operating freqs. >spaced 1-KHz. Actually we should consider operating with something >like 200-KHz spacing making 30 operating freqs. inside 6-KHz. > >Just for discussion. Your turn! > >73, Ed > >At 09:47 AM 11/30/2011, Cliff Sojourner wrote: >>my point was you won't find any single frequency that makes everyone happy. >> >>On 2011-11-30 10:39, Edward R. Cole wrote: >>>Cliff, >>> >>>No reason that you cannot do that. Read my response to earlier posts. >>> >>>Ed >>> >>>At 07:16 AM 11/30/2011, you wrote: >>>>finally, Ed suggested a center frequency. but no matter what >>>>frequency you pick, someone will have birdies there. so the >>>>reality is we have to be able to move around the band. >>>> >>>>Cliff K6CLS > > >73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 >====================================== >BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com >EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-? >DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa(a)gmail.com >====================================== 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa(a)gmail.com ======================================

11 years, 6 months

JT65 Operating Hints

by w3sz

Hi All, I was pretty busy with work and family demands over the past week, and am just getting around to getting caught up on my Amateur Radio Related email lists. Thanks to everyone who was on 144 MHz EME last weekend, whether or not you and I were able to complete! In spite of the fact that I slept through the first 6 hours after moonrise on Sunday, a result being middle-aged and not sleeping from 6 am Friday to 4 pm Saturday, I very much enjoyed the weekend and really liked seeing all of the activity on 144 MHz EME although I was only able to work a fraction of it. The ARRL Contest was a lot of fun, as always, and it was great to see both the old familiar calls, as well as some new ones! Based on some emails on this list from the past week, I can see that there are some nuances to operating with JT65 using WSJT [and MAP65] that some folks may not be aware of. These were already alluded to, but I think some more detail regarding them may be helpful. I hope the hints provided below are well-enough described to be useful to list readers. I am fairly far along the learning curve for the JT modes, as I've been using WSJT since the JT44 days, and before Joe Taylor developed JT44 I was using its predecessor PUA43 with a DSP-10. In all of that time I have found only one situation where I am 'blocked' from receiving a signal in one of these modes by another signal using the same mode. That is when there is an extremely strong local station whose terrestrial signal produces such a strong signal that my receiver is either desensitized or filled with IMD-related noise and spurious signals. When this has happened I have sometimes been able to go to vertical polarity and reduced the terrestrial signal enough to copy the EME signals in the pass band, but often this does not provide enough reduction in the strength of the local terrestrial signal. So I just move off the frequency until the local station changes frequency. If he is so strong that the whole band is trashed, then I switch to transmitting on the same cycle as he is and go look for other contacts available in the 'new' cycle. I have never had an occasion where a JT-mode signal coming to me by means of EME has blocked another JT-mode signal. This is true even when one of the signals in the pass band is one of the really big guns, such as W5UN, K5GW, or KB8RQ to name some stateside examples of really excellent signals [sent out by really excellent operators]. That is not to say it absolutely couldn't happen, but I have never had it happen with a lot of operating over a lot of years. I run with my AGC off. I guess if one couldn't turn off or didn't turn off the AGC and there were an EME signal triggering the AGC that COULD suppress a much weaker signal. But I have always kept the AGC off to avoid that. I know that not everyone agrees with this approach of turning the AGC off. But it has worked well for me for many years. The reason that other signals in the pass band are not a problem for me [or others who are aware of what I am about to point out] is that when running JT65 using WSJT, one can set the Tolerance [Tol] to 10 Hz, and separate out one signal from another if they are as close together as 10 Hz. You set Tol to 10 by right clicking on the Tol button until it says 10. Then you SINGLE left-click on the signal you want, and single left-click on Decode. NOTE that if you DOUBLE left-click on the signal you want, Tol will jump to 50. That is not what you want if you are trying to separate out two signals that are closer together than 50 Hz! You also want to have the FREEZE box checked. I have never had to deal with a case where 2 signals were within 10 Hz of each other and thus one blocked the other. Theoretically it could happen that two signals were dead on top of one another, but I haven't seen it. Note that when I say that that two signals are [for example] 20 Hz apart, I am not saying that these signals don't overlap, and that the bottom end of the higher frequency signal is separated from the top end of the lower frequency signal by 20 Hz. Rather, the signals are nearly completely overlapped, with their sync signal frequencies separated by only 20 Hz. The lower frequency signal sticks out from behind the higher frequency signal at the bottom end by 20 Hz, and the higher frequency signal sticks out from behind the lower frequency signal at the top end by 20 Hz. And yet, with FREEZE turned on and Tol set to 10, WSJT will separately decode each of these signals when you click on the appropriate signal and then click DECODE, as described above. If you want to increase the Tol, then left click on it. It can go as high as 600. Obviously, you don't increase Tol if you are trying to separate out signals that are close together. You can also adjust the Tolerance in MAP65, where the limits are 10 and 1000, and Tol is set in the same way as described above. If you watch what some of the most experienced and most successful JT65 stations do, as I have watched them, you will see that they successfully work station after station with at all times multiple signals in their pass band. This actually makes operation much more efficient for the station that knows how to do this. Lets say such a station [which we will call Station A] is working another station [Station B] at 0 on the JT65 DF axis, and that there are other signals at 50, 150, 250, 300, -30, -100, -200, which we will call respectively Stations C, D, E, F, G, H, and I calling him [or calling the other station]. While Station A is transmitting to Station B he can set the Tol to 10 [or 25 or, except for stations C and G, to 50] and decode the other stations. Once station B has sent his 73, station A can, instead of sending 73 [or after sending 73 although that is less efficient] start calling his choice of stations C through I. After he has worked that station he can call the next. If stations C through I are similarly savvy, they will continue calling station A until he has worked them. For if station A sees that one of them has stopped calling him, he will move on to the next station on the list he has created from this 'pileup'. By doing this station A doesn't need to repeatedly call CQ, and by avoiding the need to call CQ and also not sending 73 after the other station has sent 73, he can cut the number of exchanges per contact from 7 to 4, nearly doubling his QSO rate. He gets from 7 exchanges to 4 per QSO because in addition to not needing to call CQ or send 73, the exchanges of station C..D..E..F..G..H..I calling A do not take any time from Station A's schedule, as Station A copied them while he was working station B, and he can proceed directly with "C de A FN20 OOO" as soon as he has received station B's 73. This increases Station A's QSO rate by 75% over what it would be if Station A did not have multiple signals calling him in the same pass band, or if he didn't know how to take advantage of what was just described. I am not a big gun, so I don't get to use this technique as often as I would like [because I don't have a lot of signals hearing my less-strong signal], but it fills my heart with joy when I DO see multiple signals in my pass band after I call CQ, as I know that will increase my QSO rate. I also find my heart filled with joy when I am in the process of working someone and I see other signals pop up in my pass band. I know they will not block my current QSO, and they never do. I am especially happy if the new station is calling me, but even if they are calling the other station I consider it a good omen because [1] if I haven't worked them I will also be calling them and usually we will also complete a contact, and [2] signals in the pass band attract more signals in the pass band, which leads to more QSO opportunities. So I prefer to have multiple signals in my pass band, as it makes me more efficient. I learned this from watching how the big guns [and DXExpeditions and KP4AO] operate. Another question that arose on the list during the past week was why a station using JT65 might call a station and then not reply when that station called him. There are numerous perfectly acceptable reasons why this might occur. Each of these has happened to me more than once, and usually several of them happen to me at different times during a given contest. Fortunately, #5 hasn't happened to me in a few years: 1. The moon set on him as he was calling you, hoping to get in 'one more contact' before moonset. Each contest this seems to happen to me with at least one JA and 1 VK station; i.e., on 2 out of the 4 moonsets. I've also failed to complete with stations East of me when the moon set on them at their moonset. This one is not a mystery here, as the software I use tells me the other guy's Az and El as well as my own. 2. Faraday changed, or communications was marginal and so he tried switching transmit polarization to improve the signal margin and instead made things worse, so you didn't hear him when he did respond. Then he gave up. This happens to me occasionally, as my programs which predict which transmit polarization angle to use for a given receive polarization angle do not work 100% of the time, and sometimes 'second guessing' the computer suggestion helps and sometimes it makes things worse. 3. The station called you for many sequences but you didn't hear him and so you didn't respond to him. Then you DID hear him and you called him, but he didn't hear your reply, either because Faraday changed or he changed his receive polarization to see if that would make your signal better but instead it made it worse, or a local terrestrial station began transmitting in the pass band, so he gave up and moved to another frequency unaware that you were calling him. If he was using MAP65, he might see your signal pop up if you called him more than once even after he moved off frequency, but if he was sleepy or distracted or calling someone else he might miss the fact that you were calling him after he moved off frequency even if he were running MAP65. 4. At his end, WSJT or MAP65 locked up or stopped decoding, or the computer on which WSJT or MAP65 was running crashed and had to be rebooted and the program restarted, etc. By the time he got done with all of that you had moved on to other things [understandably]. 5. His 8877 amplifier decided to quit [or other piece of hardware failed]. 6. His computer Az/El control program / rotor link decided to quit or return to parked position for no apparent reason so his array was no longer pointed at the moon. He didn't figure this out immediately. 7. The station got no response from you with multiple calls, and then saw a new DXCC pop up on another frequency and left to work that station just as you decided to start calling him, so he didn't see your call. 8. The station operator, being approximately 60 years of age, and without any sleep for 36 hours or more due to the timing of the moon windows for the selected contest weekend, fell asleep in spite of consuming potentially lethal [but perfectly legal] amounts of caffeine in a vain attempt to stay awake for the contest, and so missed your call. 9. The operator made any one of a zillion other possible mistakes that we are all prone to as human beings, particularly when we are operating in the middle of the night with no sleep. 10. He DID call you but you didn't hear it because of a problem at your end of the link. I hope the above is helpful! Thanks again to all who were on the air last weekend, and -- 73, Roger Rehr W3SZ http://www.nitehawk.com/w3sz

11 years, 6 months

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Moon-net November 2011